Discussion:
Some emotions animals don't experience
(too old to reply)
Rudy Canoza
2015-08-21 16:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Disappointment

The other day, as I was about to take my son to school, I asked my dog
if she wanted to go for a ride in the car with us, something she loves
doing. She ran to the front door, eager to go. As we started to go
out, I realized I was going to have to leave her in the car for a while,
as I had to go into the school office. It was a hot day - too hot to
leave the dog in the car, even with the windows down a little - so I
left her in the house. She didn't do anything, didn't look "sad" or
anything else. She looked and behaved exactly as she does when I leave
the house and don't take her any other time.

When I asked her again yesterday, as I was getting ready to leave to go
pick my son up after school, she ran to the front door again, eager to
go. There was no distrustful look, nothing that said, "Ah, you're just
going to trick me again."

Dogs and other animals don't experience disappointment. That's purely a
human emotion.
Derek
2015-08-21 18:22:49 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:38:11 -0700, Rudy Canoza
<***@philhendrie.con> wrote:

<snipped anecdotal garbage presented as evidence to base a nonsense claim>
Post by Rudy Canoza
Dogs and other animals don't experience disappointment.
Take a look at the faces on the dogs in the pictures in this link
http://bit.ly/1NKoKDz and try deluding yourself again that those tormented
animals aren't suffering disappointment and a great many other emotions
human experience. Don't look away. Go down the page and look at all of them.
Post by Rudy Canoza
That's purely a human emotion.
Ipse dixit. You'd say anything to trivialise the suffering you and your type
inflict on animals to head off criticism.
unknown
2015-09-03 01:19:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:38:11 -0700, Rudy Canoza
<snipped anecdotal garbage presented as evidence to base a nonsense claim>
Post by Rudy Canoza
Dogs and other animals don't experience disappointment.
Take a look at the faces on the dogs in the pictures in this link
http://bit.ly/1NKoKDz and try deluding yourself again that those tormented
animals aren't suffering disappointment and a great many other emotions
human experience. Don't look away. Go down the page and look at all of them.
Goo MAY BE too stupid to comprehend that animals experience emotions, but
more likely he lies about that like all the other things he lies about. The only
question about his lies is why he tells them, but it still seems clear that he
tells them to support the eliminationist position.
Post by Derek
Post by Rudy Canoza
That's purely a human emotion.
Ipse dixit. You'd say anything to trivialise the suffering you and your type
inflict on animals to head off criticism.
All of you eliminationists agree with Goo about his following claims:

"Causing the animals to exist is not "contributing to their lives."" - Goo

"Coming into existence - that is, "getting to experience life" - is not a
benefit for livestock animals. It is a benefit only for those who wish
to consume products made from those animals." - Goo

"The chickens "getting to experience life" is not *ANY* kind of good thing,
for them, versus never existing." - Goo

"The "experiencing" of life is morally meaningless." - Goo

"they do not "benefit" in any way from coming into existence, versus never
existing." - Goo

"The emotion of expectation is *much* more than mere expectation" - Goo

"It is not to my son's advantage to have been born versus never existing" - Goo

"coming into existence didn't make me better off than I was before." - Goo

"Not existing is not equivalent to "being nothing."" - Goo

"Animals do not "benefit" in any way from coming into existence, versus
never existing." - Goo

"...existence, or "getting to experience life", is not a benefit compared
with never existing." - Goo

"it is not "better" that the animal exist, no matter
its quality of live" - Goo

"It is not a "benefit" to come into existence and "get to experience life"
instead of
never existing" - Goo

"A life - *any* life of *any* quality - is not a "benefit" to an animal versus
never existing" - Goo

"Coming into existence is not a benefit compared with never existing - proved."
- Goo

"Existence doesn't improve welfare versus never existing" - Goo

"according to me, existence is not a benefit - ever." - Goo

"animals' "getting to experience life" is nonsense." - Goo

"the moral harm caused by killing them is greater in magnitude
than ANY benefit they might derive from "decent lives" - Goo

"no matter how "decent" the conditions are, the deliberate killing
of the animals erases all of it." - Goo

""giving them life" does NOT mitigate the wrongness of
their deaths" - Goo

"It is not "better" for the animals to experience a good life than
never to live at all." - Goo

""Getting to experience life" has no significance." - Goo

"Rights are not given. Rights exist." - Goo

"It is not "good" for the animals that they exist, no matter
how pleasant the condition of their existence." - Goo

"It is not "good for them" to exist, no matter how pleasant
the existence." - Goo

"it is not "better" that the animal exist, no matter
its quality of live" - Goo

"It is not "better" in any moral way, and not in *any* way
at all to the animal itself, that the animal exists." - Goo

"Coming into existence is not a benefit to them: it does
not make them better off than before they existed." - Goo

"Life -per se- NEVER is a "benefit" to animals or even
to humans . . . "getting to experience life" is not
a benefit." - Goo

"When considering your food choices ethically, assign
ZERO weight to the morally empty fact that choosing to
eat meat causes animals to be bred into existence." - Goo

"I have examined the question at length, and feel
there is only one reasonable conclusion: life, per se,
is not a benefit." - Goo

"Being born is not a benefit in any way. It can't be." - Goo

"It is morally wrong, in an absolute sense - unjust, in other
words - if humans kill animals they don't need to kill, i.e. not
in self defense. There's your answer. " - Goo

"Life "justifying" death is the
stupidest goddamned thing you ever wrote." - Goo

"NO livestock benefit from being farmed." - Goo

"No farm animals benefit from farming." - Goo

"There is nothing to "appreciate" about the livestock "getting
to experience life" - Goo

"the "getting to experience life" deserves NO moral
consideration, and is given none; the deliberate killing
of animals for use by humans DOES deserve moral
consideration, and gets it." - Goo

""giving them life" does NOT mitigate the wrongness of
their deaths" - Goo

"Causing animals to be born and "get to experience life"
(in Fuckwit's wretched prose) is no mitigation at all for
killing them." - Goo

"When considering your food choices ethically, assign
ZERO weight to the morally empty fact that choosing to
eat meat causes animals to be bred into existence." - Goo

"The meaningless fact-lette that farm animals "get to
experience life" deserves no consideration when asking
whether or not it is moral to kill them. Zero." - Goo

"the nutritionally unnecessary choice deliberately to kill an animal
ALWAYS causes a moral harm greater in magnitude than . . . the
moral "benefit" realized by the animal in existing at all" - Goo

"the moral harm caused by killing them is greater in magnitude
than ANY benefit they might derive from "decent lives" - Goo

"no matter how "decent" the conditions are, the deliberate killing
of the animals erases all of it." - Goo

"it is not "better" that the animal exist, no matter
its quality of live" - Goo

"It is not "better" in any moral way, and not in *any* way
at all to the animal itself, that the animal exists." - Goo
Derek
2015-09-03 15:01:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Derek
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:38:11 -0700, Rudy Canoza
<snipped anecdotal garbage presented as evidence to base a nonsense claim>
Post by Rudy Canoza
Dogs and other animals don't experience disappointment.
Take a look at the faces on the dogs in the pictures in this link
http://bit.ly/1NKoKDz and try deluding yourself again that those tormented
animals aren't suffering disappointment and a great many other emotions
human experience. Don't look away. Go down the page and look at all of them.
Goo MAY BE too stupid to comprehend that animals experience emotions,
I'm certain that dogs do share some of our emotions but unsure whether they
share some of the more complex ones. Something worth mentioning here is
something I read in wiki;

[Psychology research has shown that when humans gaze at the face of another
human, the gaze is not symmetrical; the gaze instinctively moves to the
right side of the face to obtain information about their emotions and state.
Research at the University of Lincoln shows that dogs share this instinct
when meeting a human, and only when meeting a human (i.e., not other animals
or other dogs). They are the only non-primate species known to share this
instinct.]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_in_animals
Post by unknown
but
more likely he lies about that like all the other things he lies about. The only
question about his lies is why he tells them,
He tells them to escape responsibility, guilt and criticism. Take the below
exchange between him and a police officer who recently pulled him over for
speeding, for example, and see how cleverly he escapes all three.

Officer: May I see your driver's license?
Jon: I don't have one. I had it suspended when I got my 5th DUI.
Officer: May I see the owner's card for this vehicle?
Jon: It's not my car. I stole it.
Officer: The car is stolen?
Jon: That's right. But come to think of it, I think I saw the owner's card
in the glove box when I was putting my gun in there.
Officer: There's a gun in the glove box?
Jon: Yes sir. That's where I put it after I shot and killed the woman who
owns this car and stuffed her in the trunk.
Officer: There's a BODY in the TRUNK?!?!?
Jon: Yes, sir.
Hearing this, the officer immediately called his captain. The car was
quickly surrounded by police, and the captain approached Jon to handle the
tense situation:
Captain: Sir, can I see your license?
Jon: Sure. Here it is.
It was valid.
Captain: Who's car is this?
Jon: It's mine, officer. Here's the owner' card.
Jon did own the car.
Captain: Could you slowly open your glove box so I can see if there's a gun
in it?
Jon: Yes, sir, but there's no gun in it.
Sure enough, there was nothing in the glove box.
Captain: Would you mind opening your trunk? I was told you said there's a
body in it.
Jon: No problem.
Trunk is opened; no body.
Captain: I don't understand it. The officer who stopped you said you told
him you didn't have a license, stole the car, had a gun in the glovebox, and
that there was a dead body in the trunk.
Jon: Yeah, I'll bet the liar told you I was speeding, too.
Post by unknown
but it still seems clear that he
tells them to support the eliminationist position.
Post by Derek
Post by Rudy Canoza
That's purely a human emotion.
Ipse dixit. You'd say anything to trivialise the suffering you and your type
inflict on animals to head off criticism.
"Causing the animals to exist is not "contributing to their lives."" - Goo
"Coming into existence - that is, "getting to experience life" - is not a
benefit for livestock animals. It is a benefit only for those who wish
to consume products made from those animals." - Goo
"The chickens "getting to experience life" is not *ANY* kind of good thing,
for them, versus never existing." - Goo
"The "experiencing" of life is morally meaningless." - Goo
"they do not "benefit" in any way from coming into existence, versus never
existing." - Goo
"The emotion of expectation is *much* more than mere expectation" - Goo
"It is not to my son's advantage to have been born versus never existing" - Goo
"coming into existence didn't make me better off than I was before." - Goo
"Not existing is not equivalent to "being nothing."" - Goo
"Animals do not "benefit" in any way from coming into existence, versus
never existing." - Goo
"...existence, or "getting to experience life", is not a benefit compared
with never existing." - Goo
"it is not "better" that the animal exist, no matter
its quality of live" - Goo
"It is not a "benefit" to come into existence and "get to experience life"
instead of
never existing" - Goo
"A life - *any* life of *any* quality - is not a "benefit" to an animal versus
never existing" - Goo
"Coming into existence is not a benefit compared with never existing - proved."
- Goo
"Existence doesn't improve welfare versus never existing" - Goo
"according to me, existence is not a benefit - ever." - Goo
"animals' "getting to experience life" is nonsense." - Goo
"the moral harm caused by killing them is greater in magnitude
than ANY benefit they might derive from "decent lives" - Goo
"no matter how "decent" the conditions are, the deliberate killing
of the animals erases all of it." - Goo
""giving them life" does NOT mitigate the wrongness of
their deaths" - Goo
"It is not "better" for the animals to experience a good life than
never to live at all." - Goo
""Getting to experience life" has no significance." - Goo
"Rights are not given. Rights exist." - Goo
"It is not "good" for the animals that they exist, no matter
how pleasant the condition of their existence." - Goo
"It is not "good for them" to exist, no matter how pleasant
the existence." - Goo
"it is not "better" that the animal exist, no matter
its quality of live" - Goo
"It is not "better" in any moral way, and not in *any* way
at all to the animal itself, that the animal exists." - Goo
"Coming into existence is not a benefit to them: it does
not make them better off than before they existed." - Goo
"Life -per se- NEVER is a "benefit" to animals or even
to humans . . . "getting to experience life" is not
a benefit." - Goo
"When considering your food choices ethically, assign
ZERO weight to the morally empty fact that choosing to
eat meat causes animals to be bred into existence." - Goo
"I have examined the question at length, and feel
there is only one reasonable conclusion: life, per se,
is not a benefit." - Goo
"Being born is not a benefit in any way. It can't be." - Goo
"It is morally wrong, in an absolute sense - unjust, in other
words - if humans kill animals they don't need to kill, i.e. not
in self defense. There's your answer. " - Goo
"Life "justifying" death is the
stupidest goddamned thing you ever wrote." - Goo
"NO livestock benefit from being farmed." - Goo
"No farm animals benefit from farming." - Goo
"There is nothing to "appreciate" about the livestock "getting
to experience life" - Goo
"the "getting to experience life" deserves NO moral
consideration, and is given none; the deliberate killing
of animals for use by humans DOES deserve moral
consideration, and gets it." - Goo
""giving them life" does NOT mitigate the wrongness of
their deaths" - Goo
"Causing animals to be born and "get to experience life"
(in Fuckwit's wretched prose) is no mitigation at all for
killing them." - Goo
"When considering your food choices ethically, assign
ZERO weight to the morally empty fact that choosing to
eat meat causes animals to be bred into existence." - Goo
"The meaningless fact-lette that farm animals "get to
experience life" deserves no consideration when asking
whether or not it is moral to kill them. Zero." - Goo
"the nutritionally unnecessary choice deliberately to kill an animal
ALWAYS causes a moral harm greater in magnitude than . . . the
moral "benefit" realized by the animal in existing at all" - Goo
"the moral harm caused by killing them is greater in magnitude
than ANY benefit they might derive from "decent lives" - Goo
"no matter how "decent" the conditions are, the deliberate killing
of the animals erases all of it." - Goo
"it is not "better" that the animal exist, no matter
its quality of live" - Goo
"It is not "better" in any moral way, and not in *any* way
at all to the animal itself, that the animal exists." - Goo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen those quotes more times than I can remember.
They don't achieve anything. Try looking at your argument, that coming into
existence is a benefit, in the following way. Think of the term benefit in
its proper forward tense and you'll be home and dry. Examples? Eating is a
benefit because it stops me from feeling hungry later. Learning to swim is a
benefit because it allows me to exercise and may save my life. Coming into
my inheritance is a benefit because it allows me to pay off my debtors.
Coming into class is a benefit because it allows me to learn. Coming into
existence is a benefit because it allows me to continue existing. Everything
I benefit from now is because of an earlier event. Coming into existence
must be one of those events.
m***@.
2015-10-24 19:51:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek
Post by unknown
Post by Derek
<snipped anecdotal garbage presented as evidence to base a nonsense claim>
Post by Rudy Canoza
Dogs and other animals don't experience disappointment.
Take a look at the faces on the dogs in the pictures in this link
http://bit.ly/1NKoKDz and try deluding yourself again that those tormented
animals aren't suffering disappointment and a great many other emotions
human experience. Don't look away. Go down the page and look at all of them.
Goo MAY BE too stupid to comprehend that animals experience emotions,
I'm certain that dogs do share some of our emotions but unsure whether they
share some of the more complex ones. Something worth mentioning here is
something I read in wiki;
[Psychology research has shown that when humans gaze at the face of another
human, the gaze is not symmetrical; the gaze instinctively moves to the
right side of the face to obtain information about their emotions and state.
Research at the University of Lincoln shows that dogs share this instinct
when meeting a human, and only when meeting a human (i.e., not other animals
or other dogs). They are the only non-primate species known to share this
instinct.]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_in_animals
Maybe.
Post by Derek
Post by unknown
but
more likely he lies about that like all the other things he lies about. The only
question about his lies is why he tells them,
He tells them to escape responsibility, guilt and criticism.
By telling them he BRINGS ON MORE responsibility, guilt and criticism.
Post by Derek
Take the below
exchange between him and a police officer who recently pulled him over for
speeding, for example, and see how cleverly he escapes all three.
Officer: May I see your driver's license?
Jon: I don't have one. I had it suspended when I got my 5th DUI.
Officer: May I see the owner's card for this vehicle?
Jon: It's not my car. I stole it.
Officer: The car is stolen?
Jon: That's right. But come to think of it, I think I saw the owner's card
in the glove box when I was putting my gun in there.
Officer: There's a gun in the glove box?
Jon: Yes sir. That's where I put it after I shot and killed the woman who
owns this car and stuffed her in the trunk.
Officer: There's a BODY in the TRUNK?!?!?
Jon: Yes, sir.
Hearing this, the officer immediately called his captain. The car was
quickly surrounded by police, and the captain approached Jon to handle the
Captain: Sir, can I see your license?
Jon: Sure. Here it is.
It was valid.
Captain: Who's car is this?
Jon: It's mine, officer. Here's the owner' card.
Jon did own the car.
Captain: Could you slowly open your glove box so I can see if there's a gun
in it?
Jon: Yes, sir, but there's no gun in it.
Sure enough, there was nothing in the glove box.
Captain: Would you mind opening your trunk? I was told you said there's a
body in it.
Jon: No problem.
Trunk is opened; no body.
Captain: I don't understand it. The officer who stopped you said you told
him you didn't have a license, stole the car, had a gun in the glovebox, and
that there was a dead body in the trunk.
Jon: Yeah, I'll bet the liar told you I was speeding, too.
A fun story but not something Goo could pull off.
Post by Derek
Post by unknown
but it still seems clear that he
tells them to support the eliminationist position.
Post by Derek
Post by Rudy Canoza
That's purely a human emotion.
Ipse dixit. You'd say anything to trivialise the suffering you and your type
inflict on animals to head off criticism.
"Causing the animals to exist is not "contributing to their lives."" - Goo
"Coming into existence - that is, "getting to experience life" - is not a
benefit for livestock animals. It is a benefit only for those who wish
to consume products made from those animals." - Goo
"The chickens "getting to experience life" is not *ANY* kind of good thing,
for them, versus never existing." - Goo
"The "experiencing" of life is morally meaningless." - Goo
"they do not "benefit" in any way from coming into existence, versus never
existing." - Goo
"The emotion of expectation is *much* more than mere expectation" - Goo
"It is not to my son's advantage to have been born versus never existing" - Goo
"coming into existence didn't make me better off than I was before." - Goo
"Not existing is not equivalent to "being nothing."" - Goo
"Animals do not "benefit" in any way from coming into existence, versus
never existing." - Goo
"...existence, or "getting to experience life", is not a benefit compared
with never existing." - Goo
"it is not "better" that the animal exist, no matter
its quality of live" - Goo
"It is not a "benefit" to come into existence and "get to experience life"
instead of
never existing" - Goo
"A life - *any* life of *any* quality - is not a "benefit" to an animal versus
never existing" - Goo
"Coming into existence is not a benefit compared with never existing - proved."
- Goo
"Existence doesn't improve welfare versus never existing" - Goo
"according to me, existence is not a benefit - ever." - Goo
"animals' "getting to experience life" is nonsense." - Goo
"the moral harm caused by killing them is greater in magnitude
than ANY benefit they might derive from "decent lives" - Goo
"no matter how "decent" the conditions are, the deliberate killing
of the animals erases all of it." - Goo
""giving them life" does NOT mitigate the wrongness of
their deaths" - Goo
"It is not "better" for the animals to experience a good life than
never to live at all." - Goo
""Getting to experience life" has no significance." - Goo
"Rights are not given. Rights exist." - Goo
"It is not "good" for the animals that they exist, no matter
how pleasant the condition of their existence." - Goo
"It is not "good for them" to exist, no matter how pleasant
the existence." - Goo
"it is not "better" that the animal exist, no matter
its quality of live" - Goo
"It is not "better" in any moral way, and not in *any* way
at all to the animal itself, that the animal exists." - Goo
"Coming into existence is not a benefit to them: it does
not make them better off than before they existed." - Goo
"Life -per se- NEVER is a "benefit" to animals or even
to humans . . . "getting to experience life" is not
a benefit." - Goo
"When considering your food choices ethically, assign
ZERO weight to the morally empty fact that choosing to
eat meat causes animals to be bred into existence." - Goo
"I have examined the question at length, and feel
there is only one reasonable conclusion: life, per se,
is not a benefit." - Goo
"Being born is not a benefit in any way. It can't be." - Goo
"It is morally wrong, in an absolute sense - unjust, in other
words - if humans kill animals they don't need to kill, i.e. not
in self defense. There's your answer. " - Goo
"Life "justifying" death is the
stupidest goddamned thing you ever wrote." - Goo
"NO livestock benefit from being farmed." - Goo
"No farm animals benefit from farming." - Goo
"There is nothing to "appreciate" about the livestock "getting
to experience life" - Goo
"the "getting to experience life" deserves NO moral
consideration, and is given none; the deliberate killing
of animals for use by humans DOES deserve moral
consideration, and gets it." - Goo
""giving them life" does NOT mitigate the wrongness of
their deaths" - Goo
"Causing animals to be born and "get to experience life"
(in Fuckwit's wretched prose) is no mitigation at all for
killing them." - Goo
"When considering your food choices ethically, assign
ZERO weight to the morally empty fact that choosing to
eat meat causes animals to be bred into existence." - Goo
"The meaningless fact-lette that farm animals "get to
experience life" deserves no consideration when asking
whether or not it is moral to kill them. Zero." - Goo
"the nutritionally unnecessary choice deliberately to kill an animal
ALWAYS causes a moral harm greater in magnitude than . . . the
moral "benefit" realized by the animal in existing at all" - Goo
"the moral harm caused by killing them is greater in magnitude
than ANY benefit they might derive from "decent lives" - Goo
"no matter how "decent" the conditions are, the deliberate killing
of the animals erases all of it." - Goo
"it is not "better" that the animal exist, no matter
its quality of live" - Goo
"It is not "better" in any moral way, and not in *any* way
at all to the animal itself, that the animal exists." - Goo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen those quotes more times than I can remember.
They don't achieve anything.
The give us a look into the Goober's "mind".
Post by Derek
Try looking at your argument, that coming into
existence is a benefit, in the following way. Think of the term benefit in
its proper forward tense and you'll be home and dry. Examples? Eating is a
benefit because it stops me from feeling hungry later. Learning to swim is a
benefit because it allows me to exercise and may save my life. Coming into
my inheritance is a benefit because it allows me to pay off my debtors.
Coming into class is a benefit because it allows me to learn. Coming into
existence is a benefit because it allows me to continue existing. Everything
I benefit from now is because of an earlier event. Coming into existence
must be one of those events.
Existence is ONE OF the benefits that make all others possible. Life itself
is another one. Could Goo honestly be too stupid to comprehend? If not, why is
he so desperate to make himself appear to be?
james g. keegan jr.
2015-09-03 18:15:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
too stupid to comprehend that animals experience emotions, but
Animals experience only the most simple and basic emotions: fear,
aggression, contentment.
m***@.
2015-10-24 19:51:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by james g. keegan jr.
Post by unknown
too stupid to comprehend that animals experience emotions, but
Animals experience only the most simple and basic emotions: fear,
aggression, contentment.
Try backing up that claim, Goo.
Rudy Canoza
2015-10-24 21:31:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@.
Post by james g. keegan jr.
Post by unknown
too stupid to comprehend that animals experience emotions, but
Animals experience only the most simple and basic emotions: fear,
aggression, contentment.
Try backing up that claim
Done, ages ago.
m***@.
2015-11-05 17:51:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@.
Post by james g. keegan jr.
Post by unknown
too stupid to comprehend that animals experience emotions, but
Animals experience only the most simple and basic emotions: fear,
aggression, contentment.
Try backing up that claim, Goo.
Done, ages ago.
Now try backing up both of those claims, Goo.
Rüdy Canôza
2015-11-06 02:54:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@.
Post by james g. keegan jr.
Post by unknown
too stupid to comprehend that animals experience emotions, but
Animals experience only the most simple and basic emotions: fear,
aggression, contentment.
Try backing up that claim, Goo.
Done, ages ago.
Now try backing up both of those claims
Done, ages ago.
m***@.
2015-12-10 19:06:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@.
Post by james g. keegan jr.
Post by unknown
too stupid to comprehend that animals experience emotions, but
Animals experience only the most simple and basic emotions: fear,
aggression, contentment.
Try backing up that claim, Goo.
Done, ages ago.
Now try backing up both of those claims, Goo.
D
You lose again just as you have consistently done for ages, Goo.
james g. keegan jr.
2015-12-10 22:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@.
Post by james g. keegan jr.
Post by unknown
too stupid to comprehend that animals experience emotions, but
Animals experience only the most simple and basic emotions: fear,
aggression, contentment.
Try backing up that claim, Goo.
Done, ages ago.
Now try backing up both of those claims
Done, ages ago.
You
I win, again and as always.

You lose, Fuckwit. You always lose.
Rudy Canoza
2015-10-02 04:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:38:11 -0700, Rudy Canoza
<snipped anecdotal garbage presented as evidence to base a nonsense claim>
Post by Rudy Canoza
Dogs and other animals don't experience disappointment.
Take a look at the faces on the dogs in the pictures in this link
http://bit.ly/1NKoKDz and
No disappointment - most of those dogs pictured are already dead, so we
can be confident they don't experience any emotion at all.

I just confirmed again that dogs don't suffer disappointment. Earlier
today, I was heading out of the house, and I inadvertently jangled my
key ring. My dog ran to the door, as she recognizes that as a signal of
my departure and often she gets to accompany me. I told her she
couldn't go, and she just looked at me and didn't try to bolt out of the
house. When I returned, she greeted me with the same enthusiasm as on
any other return. Later, when I was heading out again and jangled the
keys to let her know she could accompany me, she came running to the
door with her usual enthusiasm - no disappointment.

Dogs and other animals do not experience disappointment. That's purely
a human emotion.
--
Any serious look at the history of human beings over the millennia shows
that the species began in poverty. It is not poverty, but prosperity,
that needs explaining. Poverty is automatic, but prosperity requires
many things -- none of which is equally distributed around the world or
even within a given society.

Thomas Sowell
Derek
2015-10-02 08:54:09 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 21:59:31 -0700, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Derek
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:38:11 -0700, Rudy Canoza
<snipped anecdotal garbage presented as evidence to base a nonsense claim>
Post by Rudy Canoza
Dogs and other animals don't experience disappointment.
Take a look at the faces on the dogs in the pictures in this link
http://bit.ly/1NKoKDz and
No disappointment - most of those dogs pictured are already dead
No, the vast majority were still alive in cages, being dragged out of their
cages on the end of a looped length of wood, and some of them were trying to
climb out of pots of boiling water. They most certainly were very
disappointed, to say the least. If you had gone to that link and not shrunk
away from looking at all the photos, you would see that the majority of
those dogs were alive and thoroughly disappointed. But you didn't. You
probably didn't even have the guts to click on it and see the agonies you're
so desperately trying to trivialise.
Post by Rudy Canoza
I just confirmed again that dogs don't suffer disappointment.
Rather, you have not confirmed that dogs don't suffer disappointment. What
you have confirmed is that you're an enabler and an apologist for the
atrocities seen in those pictures.

<anecdotal evidence not supporting claim dismissed>
Post by Rudy Canoza
Dogs and other animals do not experience disappointment.
There's a lot of sound evidence to show that apes and other primates do
experience disappointment. Seems obvious to me that you know very little
about animals, apart from carving them up and trivialising the suffering
they go through before reaching your plate. Apes, in particular, share a lot
of our emotions. There's no denying it.

[Beyond such anecdotal evidence, support for empathetic reactions has come
from experimental studies of rhesus macaques. Macaques refused to pull a
chain that delivered food to themselves if doing so also caused a companion
to receive an electric shock. This inhibition of hurting another conspecific
was more pronounced between familiar than unfamiliar macaques, a finding
similar to that of empathy in humans.]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_in_animals#Primates
Post by Rudy Canoza
That's purely a human emotion.
Evidence, please. Real evidence; not the anecdotal rubbish you keep trying
to offer.
Rudy Canoza
2015-08-22 18:47:26 UTC
Permalink
Schadenfreude

That's the emotion of taking satisfaction in the misfortune that befalls
another. It usually, but not necessarily, is somewhat concealed, and
the person to whom the misfortune occurs is usually someone for whom the
person experiencing the emotion feels some animus, but in its broadest
sense it covers laughing at a stranger slipping on a banana peel. The
more nuanced sense would exclude the banana peel accident. The nuanced
sense includes the idea that the person experiencing the emotion feels
the victim in some way deserved the misfortune.

Animals don't experience Schadenfreude (capitalized because it's a
German noun by origin.) They can't, because animals do not have a sense
of desert - of morally deserving something.

I believe most "vegans" have an excessive sense of Schadenfreude. Most
"vegan" are delighted when they learn that someone has had some
misfortune possibly as a result of eating meat or consuming other animal
products.
Rudy Canoza
2015-08-25 21:25:44 UTC
Permalink
Pride (in achievement)

Animals don't take pride in the achievements of themselves or of their
offspring, siblings, fellow members of the pack or herd or flock, etc.
There are a lot of reasons for this. First of all, animals don't have
any sense of achievement in the first place. They just do what they are
programmed to do. Second, they don't set goals for themselves that
require dedication and effort to master. Third, they don't have any
ability to evaluate the performance of one animal in comparison with the
performance of other animals and judge the one "superior."

If a predator catches prey, it doesn't feel any pride in it; it just
eats. The contrary is also true: if a predator attempts to catch prey
and fails, it feels no shame.
Rudy Canoza
2015-08-27 15:16:50 UTC
Permalink
Anticipation

Animals cannot experience the emotion of anticipation. By anticipation,
we do not mean the sense of mere expectation, which after all isn't an
emotion. If I go to where my dog's food is kept at the time I usually
feed her (6:00am and 6:00pm), she expects I'm going to feed her. At
3:00pm, she does not experience the emotion of anticipation about being
fed at 6:00pm.

If you tell a five year old child in the middle of September that you're
going to take her to Disneyland for her birthday at the end of October,
the child will have an emotional reaction of pleasurable excitement
contemplating her trip to Disneyland. That emotion is anticipation.
Animals can't experience it, because they have no concept of future.

Animals can anticipate or expect an imminent event, based on simple
triggers, but they cannot experience the emotion of anticipation, which
is different from mere expectation.
Rudy Canoza
2015-08-31 16:51:57 UTC
Permalink
Envy

Animals do not experience envy. Envy is not only wanting something that
another has, but specifically *not* wanting the other to have it. If
you have two dogs and one bone and give the bone to one dog to gnaw on,
the other dog will want to take it, but not because he wants the other
dog not to have a bone. If you have two bones and give one to each dog,
both dogs will not care that the other has a bone; if one bone is
significantly larger than the other, the dog with the smaller bone won't
care, because he has a bone on which to gnaw, and that's all he cares about.

Animals don't experience envy.
Rudy Canoza
2016-01-12 01:33:35 UTC
Permalink
Regret

Non-human animals do not experience regret. Regret is predicated on an
ability to recognize that actions have future consequences, and that one
course of action might lead to an inferior outcome from what might have
obtained if one had taken a different action. It is further predicated
on the awareness that consequences often cannot be undone, and that once
a particular path is not chosen, the path is closed off for good.
Finally, in the case of regret over the effect one's actions have had on
others, animals have no sense at all of the effects their actions have
on others, particular on the emotional feelings of others.

Animals do not experience regret.
Rudy Canoza
2016-02-20 16:01:11 UTC
Permalink
God, how I love this series! It's great.


Dignity

Animals do not experience the emotion of dignity.

A friend shared a picture someone else had posted on Facebook, and I
tracked it back to its original site. It's here:

http://tinyurl.com/gte8u3h

It's some kind of scruffy little dog that has been bathed but not dried.
The dog looks completely undignified - in fact, it's almost
unrecognizable as a dog. If it had a sense of dignity - which it does
not - it would be completely humiliated (humility - another emotion
animals lack) at being portrayed to the world in this way.

Dogs and other animals do not have a sense of dignity (or humility) -
those are purely human emotions.

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